The antisemitism people seemed to have forgotten

People often say that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an antisemite. But let's look at this a little bit closer: what does it mean for someone to be an antisemite? Ahmadinejad has said that the government of Israel ought to be removed. Is that antisemitic? Perhaps. But I also consider other forms of antisemitism, such as believing that all Jews are going to hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior. Would then, George Bush be considered and antisemite for this? Here's a dictionary definition of antisemitism:

an·ti-Sem·i·tism /ˌæntiˈsɛmɪˌtɪzəm, ˌæntaɪ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-tee-sem-i-tiz-uhm, an-tahy-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.


So, wouldn't the belief that Jews deserve eternal damnation be a sort of prejudice or hostility?

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

1Paul, Silas^[a] and Timothy,
To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanksgiving and Prayer

3We ought always to thank God for you, brothers, and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love every one of you has for each other is increasing. 4Therefore, among God's churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.

5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

11With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith. 12We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.^[b]

Footnotes:

1. 2 Thessalonians 1:1 Greek Silvanus, a variant of Silas
2. 2 Thessalonians 1:12 Or God and Lord, Jesus Christ

Emphasis mine. Am I missing something?

More submitter crap

I was browsing through the submission.org pages, and just out of curiosity, I wanted to see their thoughts on Jews. Of course, here is what I find:

http://www.submission.org/jews/Talmud.html

And I immediately thought, "oh shit, not Talmud misquoting again". But it gets worse (better?). Enter Michael Hoffman, noted Holocaust denier and antisemite. Yes, you (submitters) don't hate Jews, you just use bullshit from antisemites to further your case. Great job.

How about you guys invite Michael Hoffman to Submission? Or is Dawa a heretical Sunnat? He fits in perfectly with the child molester Rashad Khalifa.

See also:

http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm


Once again, it is proven that Jesus could not be the messiah. Note that I was not aware of that article, nor of that site, when I wrote my "religious arguments I don't accept". But Devarim 13 rocks. I'm thinking about printing it out and handing it out to the Christian club at my college. Maybe even the Muslims too, since they accept Jesus as the (Jewish) messiah too. But probably not the Submitters, since they don't have the mental capacity to comprehend such analyses.

Arbeit macht frei

Update on Allah girl

Talked to her on aim:

kirbybeam (2:27:15 PM): sorry for not saying goobye yesterday

kirbybeam (2:27:24 PM): btw

kirbybeam (2:27:30 PM): daylight savings time

Allah girl (2:27:45 PM): its okay

kirbybeam (2:27:54 PM): it's really 3pm

Allah girl (2:28:12 PM): 2:28?

kirbybeam (2:28:06 PM): 3:28

kirbybeam (2:28:18 PM): oh wait n

kirbybeam (2:28:19 PM): lol

Allah girl (2:28:31 PM): buti already changed it one hour and its 2:28

kirbybeam (2:28:21 PM): 2:28

kirbybeam (2:28:22 PM): haha

Allah girl (2:28:35 PM): lol

kirbybeam (2:28:27 PM): yeaaa

kirbybeam (2:28:29 PM): so how was sadies

Allah girl (2:28:46 PM): i didnt go yet lol

Allah girl (2:28:49 PM): its on the 30th

kirbybeam (2:28:38 PM): huh?

kirbybeam (2:28:41 PM): o

kirbybeam (2:28:44 PM): wow

kirbybeam (2:28:56 PM): lol

kirbybeam (2:29:04 PM): i thought it was like an ice cream store

Allah girl (2:29:29 PM): what sadies?

Allah girl (2:29:31 PM): its a dance lol

kirbybeam (2:29:23 PM): for school?

Allah girl (2:29:44 PM): yeah

kirbybeam (2:29:38 PM): o

kirbybeam (2:29:44 PM): yea

kirbybeam (2:29:45 PM): um

kirbybeam (2:29:46 PM): I

kirbybeam (2:29:54 PM): I'm not coming to the mall with you guys anymore

Allah girl (2:30:26 PM): yeah i could tell

kirbybeam (2:30:22 PM): how?

Allah girl (2:30:34 PM): sorryy

Allah girl (2:30:39 PM): cuz you were like

Allah girl (2:30:42 PM): outcasted

kirbybeam (2:30:35 PM): well

Allah girl (2:30:46 PM): thats why i dint invite you

kirbybeam (2:30:37 PM): it's my fault

Allah girl (2:30:49 PM): i knew youd be like left out

kirbybeam (2:30:38 PM): I'm too old

Allah girl (2:30:54 PM): yeah..

kirbybeam (2:31:03 PM): yea

kirbybeam (2:31:03 PM): and

kirbybeam (2:31:21 PM): [dipshit] and [angsty] left a big mess at the table

kirbybeam (2:31:22 PM): when they ate

Allah girl (2:31:44 PM): yep

kirbybeam (2:31:36 PM): and

kirbybeam (2:31:42 PM): yea

kirbybeam (2:31:44 PM): lol

kirbybeam (2:31:48 PM): idk

kirbybeam (2:32:24 PM): yea um

kirbybeam (2:32:32 PM): [dipshit] was annoying, too

kirbybeam (2:32:52 PM): how come you let him treat you guys like that

kirbybeam (2:33:18 PM): that was so mean

Allah girl (2:33:57 PM): what did he do

kirbybeam (2:33:54 PM): bother everyone

kirbybeam (2:33:59 PM): didn't you see?

kirbybeam (2:34:53 PM): like, the magic trick thing

Allah girl (2:35:53 PM): welcome to the world of teens

kirbybeam (2:36:03 PM): I'm still a teen too...?

Allah girl(2:36:37 PM): young teens

Allah girl (2:36:41 PM): who are annoying

Allah girl (2:36:42 PM): lol

kirbybeam (2:36:33 PM): ok um

kirbybeam (2:36:39 PM): the nice kid in the glasses

kirbybeam (2:36:43 PM): how come he isn't annoying them

kirbybeam (2:36:50 PM): ?

Allah girl (2:37:11 PM): are you trying to tell me whos a good friend and whos not

kirbybeam (2:37:03 PM): no

kirbybeam (2:37:09 PM): I'm just telling you how I felt

kirbybeam (2:37:18 PM): I felt so bad

Allah girl (2:37:33 PM): we had fun

kirbybeam (2:37:30 PM): I could tell

Allah girl (2:38:12 PM): like we didnt get mad at [dipshit] for throwing papers at us

kirbybeam (2:38:15 PM): ok I know

kirbybeam (2:38:20 PM): but that's not the only thing

kirbybeam (2:38:24 PM): a few jokes is ok

kirbybeam (2:38:35 PM): but constantly touching people and stuff is not cool

Allah girl (2:39:00 PM): you must really hate [dipshit] dont you

kirbybeam (2:39:19 PM): well

kirbybeam (2:39:21 PM): yea

kirbybeam (2:39:39 PM): I didn't hate him that much until I actually met him yesterday, though

kirbybeam (2:40:18 PM): but anyways

kirbybeam (2:40:18 PM): wow

kirbybeam (2:40:22 PM): I'm so glad I'm in college

kirbybeam (2:40:28 PM): everyone here is nice

Allah girl (2:40:59 PM): dont shit talk about my friends to me then..

kirbybeam (2:40:56 PM): ?

kirbybeam (2:41:03 PM): what

kirbybeam (2:41:16 PM): how am I shit talking?

Allah girl (2:41:37 PM): telling me how [dipshit] isnt nice

Allah girl (2:41:39 PM): and stuff liek that

kirbybeam (2:41:42 PM): I'm just telling you how I feel about him

Allah girl (2:42:02 PM): ...okay

kirbybeam (2:42:32 PM): does your dad like [dipshit]

Allah girl (2:43:01 PM): yes

Allah girl (2:43:02 PM): he does

kirbybeam (2:42:55 PM): ok

kirbybeam (2:42:56 PM): jw

Allah girl (2:43:30 PM): alright

kirbybeam (2:44:18 PM): why are you doing quran study

Allah girl (2:44:51 PM): ?

kirbybeam (2:45:04 PM): what do you guys do

Allah girl (2:45:28 PM): read the quran

kirbybeam (2:45:21 PM): like

Allah girl (2:45:33 PM): nd learn

Allah girl (2:45:36 PM): verses.

kirbybeam (2:45:31 PM): do you read about the part where you're not supposed to let boys touch you?

Allah girl (2:45:57 PM): your not even a submitter

Allah girl (2:46:02 PM): dont talk to me about the quran

Allah girl (2:46:06 PM): if your not what i think youare

kirbybeam (2:46:07 PM): so you're saying it's ok for boys to touch you?

Allah girl (2:46:51 PM): there are different ways of boys touching you [jason].

kirbybeam (2:46:43 PM): yes

kirbybeam (2:46:50 PM): I know

Allah girl (2:47:07 PM): grabbing your tits and ass

Allah girl (2:47:10 PM): is different

Allah girl (2:47:14 PM): than like

Allah girl (2:47:16 PM): just a hug

kirbybeam (2:47:07 PM): grabbing your hair?

Allah girl (2:47:23 PM): hair is hair

Allah girl (2:47:26 PM): i grab his hair

kirbybeam (2:47:21 PM): that doesn't make it right

Allah girl (2:47:40 PM): i dont care wht you thing

Allah girl (2:47:41 PM): think

Allah girl (2:47:47 PM): because you still think that i should cover my hair

Allah girl (2:47:51 PM): bye

kirbybeam (2:47:43 PM): no I don't

Allah girl (2:48:03 PM): just

Allah girl (2:48:05 PM): dont talk to me

kirbybeam (2:47:58 PM): why

Allah girl (2:48:16 PM): im mad at you right now

kirbybeam (2:48:32 PM): why?

Allah girl (2:48:57 PM): just dont talk to me

Allah girl (2:49:03 PM): i dont want to talk to you right now thats all.

kirbybeam (2:48:57 PM): ok but

kirbybeam (2:49:08 PM): if you're going to wear a low-cut shirt, don't wear Allah around your neck

kirbybeam (2:49:09 PM): bye

Allah girl (2:50:00 PM): if you dont like who i am

Allah girl (2:50:02 PM): or who i talk to

Allah girl (2:50:04 PM): or what i do

Allah girl (2:50:06 PM): dont ever talk to me.

kirbybeam (2:49:57 PM): ?

Allah girl (2:50:13 PM): because i wont change for you.

kirbybeam (2:50:11 PM): when did I say anything about change

Allah girl (2:50:41 PM): kirbybeam: if you're going to wear a low-cut shirt, don't wear Allah around your neck

Allah girl (2:50:45 PM): honestly

Allah girl (2:50:48 PM): it shouldnt matter to you

Allah girl (2:50:51 PM): bye.

Allah girl signed off at 2:50:46 PM.

end.

Certain things: For those of you who don't know, she said I'm "not even a submitter". A "submitter" is a follower of Rashad Khalifa, founder of the "Submission" cult, back in the 70s. It is mostly found here in California among the Iranian exiles. Probably less than 10,000 followers. It's such a stupid belief that I don't want to waste time going over it here. Here are sites that I think explain it:

http://answering-islam.org/Religions/Numerics/index.html

Now, I find most of that site to be filled with crap, and pot calling the kettle black, but that's the most notable critique of Submission that I can find. And, there's also the matter where it's Muslims who offer their critiques as well. Here is another site (Osama Abdullah, crazy conspiracy theorist):

http://www.answering-christianity.com/rk_cult_exposed.htm

But hey, I don't care if he denies 9/11, he still kicks ass =). He was the one that first told me about how Rashad Khalifa admitted to molesting a little girl. That's of course the leading picture, which is a photocopy of a local Tuscon newspaper. But hey, he was just doing what other cult leaders in the late 70s were doing. Right? No big deal? He just touched a little girls breasts. But on the plus-side, he saved people from eternal damnation! -_-

According to the "official" biography of Rashad Khalifa found on submission.org, Rashad Khalifa was 43, married, and had two children at the time. Come on you sick freak! At least marry the little girls before having sex with them (y halo thar Aisha bint Abu Bakr).

Yea, I got off track. In any case, I blame the Jews. It's all their fault for starting Judaism, because had they not done that, both Christianity and Islam would never have happened. =)

Hell, if I'm going with this, I might as well blame Bush and Michael Moore too. Isn't Michael Moore a Christian? No wonder he's overweight. Same goes for Dr. Phil (Is he Christian?), Pat Robertson, and Bill O'Reilly. After all, Jesus and Paul basicly destroyed the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament. When was the last time you saw a fat Jew (Jews for Jesus doesn't count)?

I wonder which religion has the greatest perverts:followers ratio.

Oh by the way, fuck you Allah girl.

Religious arguments that I don't find convincing

(I would like to thank Chabad.org for their excellent website. All Tanakh quotes are from their library, unless otherwise noted.)

Well, all of them. Hah! Well, here's a few select ones that are annoying:


"That's the OLD Testament": No duh? Just because God changed his laws (hey, isn't God supposed to be unchanging? Oh well) doesn't mean that suddenly all the God-endorsed rape and murder done by the Israelites on the native peoples of Palestine (Canaanites, etc.) is excused.

"Jesus performed miracles": It doesn't matter how many miracles (if any) Jesus fulfilled. What matters is outlined in Devarim 13. It's like that chapter was written in anticipation of Jesus. First verse:

1. Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

Did Jesus add or subtract from the (local) Sanhedrin's ruling? Yes, because he preached that he was God. He preached that the only way to heaven is through him. He changed the kosher laws. That's blasphemy. Devarim 6:4 clearly states:

4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.

There's only one God, and He is One. Rashi's commentary for the verse makes this a bit clearer:

The Lord is our God; the Lord is one The Lord, who is now our God and not the God of the other nations-He will be [declared] in the future “the one God,” as it is said: “For then I will convert the peoples to a pure language that all of them call in the name of the Lord” (Zeph. 3:9), and it is [also] said: “On that day will the Lord be one and His name one” (Zech. 14:9). (see Sifrei)

A lot of people I debate with often proceed to bring up the Trinity at this point. One problem: Jesus and Paul invented the concept of the Trinity! The Trinity didn't exist before Christianity. Also, the Trinity contradicts Devarim 6:4 above. Wouldn't God have said: "The Lord is three" or something like that?


Ok, onto the next few verses (of Devarim 13)

2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.

6. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.

So let's review:

Jesus arose among the Jews. Check.
Jesus gave signs and wonders. According to the New Testament, yes. (water to wine, walking on water, healing blind men, forgiving whores) Check.
Jesus said to worship other gods that the Jews had not known (namely, himself). Check.
Jesus was sentenced to death for this. Check.

So I'm wondering how Jesus should even be respected. Was he ignorant of the Torah? Did he not have a copy of Devarim 13? Did he not ever think to himself "Hmm, if I'm going to pretend to be the moshiach, I should at least try not to convince people I'm a god as it totally goes against Hebrew monotheism." And his being killed is nothing special. He broke a law, and then got punished for it. Just like the hundreds of other dissidents in the Roman empire at the time.

"Jesus died for our sins": Let's have a scenario. Imagine there is a murderer named Bob who has a friend Joe. Bob goes and murders George. Bob is caught and taken to trial. Bob is sentenced to 10 years in prison. But then Joe comes in and says "Hey, I'll do Bob's sentence for him. Leave him alone." Would it make sense for the judge to accept Joe's proposition? Should Bob get off scot-free while someone else, totally unrelated to the crime, voluntarily undergo Bob's prison sentence? I say no, because Joe doesn't have any desert (I'm using it in the sense of the "nouning" the word "deserve" (Yes, it is a real word)). Only the person who commits the crime deserves to be punished for it. Nobody else. And thankfully, it is illegal in most countries (if not all) of the world today. Think of the disastrous consequences if it was legalized. Someone could go murder people, and as soon as he's caught, he can pay some emo kid to take his place in prison! And this is why I don't buy the "Jesus died for our sins" catchphrase. If anything, Jesus can only die for his own sins. Everyone is for themselves. In Judaism, sin is not a state of being, it is an act. That's why the concept of being "born" a sinner, original sin, etc. are all Christian concepts which aren't found in Judaism.

I think that's enough for now. Tell me what you think.

Inta min?